Curse

Xenomortis · Nov 22, 2010, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Bows should be a slow fire rate/high damage weapon, that's their thing, but not in GW

If you're borrowing from reality, then swords, heavy axes, and mauls have much more damage potential than arrows.
Even a cloth yard (3 foot arrow fired from an English Longbow) falling from the sky struggles to keep up - penetration is good but still struggles against good armour.

As for the Ranger:
Let SoH work on ranged attacks. It'd be broken, but I don't think anyone cares for that too much.
Also give Rangers a decent IAS.

The low attack speed and lack of outstanding +damage on skills makes damage hard. I would say they're actually reasonably fair, but there's basically no need for ranged physical damage in PvE and hitting mid 50s at best when my Assassin regularly pushes over 100 with just as many buffs is somewhat depressing. Everything else the Ranger does is useless.

Amy Awien · Nov 23, 2010, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Spears weren't used for throwing and meteor's never fell from the sky on command.

Just an idea to improve overal bow damage without tampering with dozens of skills and possibly introducing new imbalances.

I wouldn't mind bringing B/P back, this time with Ignite + EBSoH on Barrage but I don't expect the preps thing on Barrage to change

miriforst · Nov 23, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Playing around in both pve and pvp with my mesmer and ranger i realize how inferior the ranger really is now compared to the mesmer.

in pve all a mesmer have to do now to kill something is to spam wastrels worry and demise with panic ontop of that untill dead :P

and pvp esurge geeesss. :P

jhand · Nov 23, 2010, 06:37 PM // 18:37

my skill balance list.

Marksmanship:

Debilitating shot - change to - If foe is suffering from a condition, you gain 3..12 energy. 5 sec recharge. 1 sec cast.
Body Shot -change to - If attack does not result in a critical, you gain 2..8 energy, still does +dmg.
Powershot - needs to revert back to +dmg. +10...32 dmg. change back to 1 sec cast.
Arcing shot - add 10% armor pen, has twice the normal range.(just for something fun.)
Concussion shot - decrease to 15e, increase recharge to 10.
Marauder shot - deals +5..20 dmg, results in a critical hit if target is bleeding. 5e. 6 sec recharge. 1 sec cast.
Hunters shot - deals +5..20 dmg, inflicts bleeding if target is not moving. 6 sec recharge.
Focused shot - Shoot one arrow at target foe, shoot to arrows if target foe is near an ally. 6 sec recharge.
Penetrating shot - 20% armor pen. 5 sec recharge.
Sundering shot - 20% armor pen. 5 sec recharge.
Precision shot - moves twice as fast, does +5..25. not easily interrupted.
Volley: no +dmg at all to arrows, does not remove prep. 3 sec recharge.
Read the wind - more dmg, 4...18
Seeking arrows - arrows also do 10% armor pen.
Rapid fire - also does +2...12 dmg.
Dual shot - 6 sec recharge.
Triple shot - 8 sec recharge.
Never Rampage alone - 33% faster, remove the 1..3 regen. 10 energy. If you have this equipped, your animal companion travels with you.

Expertise:

Lightning reflex - 5...18 sec. attack 33% faster, ends if your health drops below 25%. 5e. recharge time 20 sec.
Dodge - 5..18 instead of 5..11. recharge 30 sec.
Whirling D- 30 sec recharge instead of 60.
Expert Focus - bump +dmg to +3...15.

Wilderness Survival:

Dryders - 5...18 sec instead of 5..11. 30 sec recharge
Ignite arrows - more +dmg, 4...24
Kindle arrows - more +dmg, 6...32
Serpent Q - 10...25 sec. 30 sec recharge. ends if your health drops below 25% rather than 50%.
Healing spring - 1 sec cast.
Barbed arrows - get rid of -40 armor.
Choking Gas - (2..18 seconds.)
Poison Tip sig - inflict poison with next 1..3 attacks.

Elites:

Barrage: buff to +5...25
Archers Signet - Your next 1..15 ranged attacks also hit one foe adjacent to target, if you have a preparation active.
Poison arrow: also does +5...20 dmg.
Punish shot: buff to +10..25 dmg. Halves recharge if foe has less health than you.
Prepared shot - 1 sec cast.
Incen. arrows: Hits 3 foes near target instead of 2. Burns for 1...4 sec instead of 1...3. 6 sec recharge.
Magebane shot - also gives you 2..12 energy upon interruption.

FoxBat · Nov 24, 2010, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Let SoH work on ranged attacks. It'd be broken, but I don't think anyone cares for that too much.

This is all that is really "needed" IMO. It would even take paragons a fairly long way. Why people keep looking at a huge variety of skills when a handful of broken ones are determining all our balance considerations is beyond me.

LifeInfusion · Nov 24, 2010, 01:31 PM // 13:31

I think Rangers need buffing, but non-imbagon paragons are in a better position than Rangers. It's not their all their skills are subpar, it's that you can slap them on a N/P. Motivation needed to be nerfed for PvP's sake. Command has "SYG", "fall back!"/"Incoming!", "GFTE!", and a few useful anthems.

However, choking gas is imba if you make it not lock your elite to Practiced Stance. If it is lengthened, then it should only interrupt on attack skills. It's an AoE interrupt that ignores blocking,blind, miss, and spellbreaker, after all.

If you make d-shot 6 recharge, it better scale with expertise. Or we'll just have crit barragers and non-rangers running it on builds that don't even use bows.

Quote:

Volley: no +dmg at all to arrows, does not remove prep, hits nearby instead of adjacent. 3 sec recharge.

Quote:

Barrage: nearby instead of adjacent, buff to +5...25, still removes preps.

Incen. arrows: Hits 4 foes near target instead of 2. Burns for 1...4 sec instead of 1...3.

I oppose anything ranged having a nearby range, since nearby range has always been the domain of eles. I even proposed changes to stop mesmer damage from hitting nearby (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb..._damage_skills). Most things that hit nearby are on 30 cooldown or highly conditional, save for Searing Flames and Rodgort's Invocation (25 energy). E-surge is elite, Wandering Eye/ Mistrust hit nearby, Panic/Psychic Instability do no damage. Clamor of Souls doesn't do much and is elite, Spiteful Spirit is adjacent, Ravenous Gaze is too low damage to be taken seriously, Desecrate Enchantments is on 15 cooldown and has 2 cast time, Putrid Bile/Icy Veins are conditional.

You have to keep in mind the buffs for physicals (Asuran Scan, Orders, Vanguard ward)

Xenomortis · Nov 24, 2010, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

This is all that is really "needed" IMO. It would even take paragons a fairly long way. Why people keep looking at a huge variety of skills when a handful of broken ones are determining all our balance considerations is beyond me.

I'm somewhat inclined to agree.
SoH is one of the reasons Rangers (and Paras) fall short of the other physicals. The other two are the slow attack rate and the few +damage skills (and smaller numbers on those with them). The slow attack rate and smaller numbers are balancing factors against the fact that a Ranger attacks at range. This is fine.
Except in PvE nobody cares, nothing can really stop a melee phys from dealing loads of damage (certainly not for long) so there isn't any need for this ranged option.*

I'm fine for closing the gap in performance, but there still needs to be a gap. SoH being made to affect ranged skills would do this fine.

*This assumes the physical is backed up by an adequete team. This should be the case in any decent human team and in a H/H setup. If a PUG doesn't match that H/H setup in performance then the PUG isn't really worth considering.

LifeInfusion · Nov 24, 2010, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I never understood why SoH didn't work on Rangers and Paragons actually. Conjures do.

Just because the picture has the guy wielding a ridiculously long sword isn't a reason. We could argue it is actually a ridiculously large spear.

Fay Vert · Nov 24, 2010, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I find it really depressing that a suggestion to buff rangers is to make a Monk skill more versatile. If that doesn't say how sad the plight for rangers is I don't know what does

FoxBat · Nov 24, 2010, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I find it really depressing that a suggestion to buff rangers is to make a Monk skill more versatile. If that doesn't say how sad the plight for rangers is I don't know what does

The "plight" of the ranger is primarily that said monk skill makes melee absurdly powerful.

Xiaquin · Nov 24, 2010, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Does no one see the problem with spirits, traps, conditions, recharge times and ineffectiveness of skills like Poison Arrow? How did we go from all that to just changing a monk skill?

Damage is the last thing on my personal list of fixing, I can pump that out just fine. Fix the mechanics that are supposed to make this profession unique.

Xenomortis · Nov 24, 2010, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Damage is the last thing on my personal list of fixing, I can pump that out just fine. Fix the mechanics that are supposed to make this profession unique.

The mechanics are largely fine. But when was the last time you wanted condition pressure in PvE?

Xiaquin · Nov 24, 2010, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The mechanics are largely fine.

What? Five second nature rituals that kill your party, traps are more of a burden, preparations need to be faster or last longer, interrupts are redundant, the fact that everything seems balanced for PvP...

Quote:

But when was the last time you wanted condition pressure in PvE?

I'd like skills that do more than just inflict a condition at great cost. I can think of three skills that only inflict poison: one is an elite, one costs 15e, and a signet that works like a single-use prep (and then has the nerve to include a recharge).

jhand · Nov 25, 2010, 04:44 AM // 04:44

I was messing around with some ideas for nature rituals, here they are. I tried to make it so that people would benefit the most from these if they were the ranger was their primary profession, which is why most of the bonuses start out pretty low and go high.

Also I assume everyone knows this, but to make sure; for all the X...X...X the first number is when the attribute is at 0, the middle number is when the attribute is at 12, and the last number is when the attribute is at 15. So if the last number seems over powered, remember thats only if you have at least 15 attribute points in that area. Only one spirit may be active at a time (for each individual player).

Nature’s Renewal - Create a level 1...10...15 spirit. Conditions inflicted upon non-spirit allies wear off 10..33..50% faster than normal. This spirit dies after 10...120...180 seconds. 5e / 1 sec cast / 20 sec recharge.
Quickening Zepher - Create a level 1...10...15 spirit. For non-spirit allies within its range, all skills recharge 10..50..75% faster and cost 33..15..10% more of the base Energy to cast. This spirit dies after 10...60...120 seconds. 10e / 2 sec cast / 30 sec recharge.
Tranquility - Create a level 1...10...15 spirit. Enchantments cast by non-spirit allies last 5..25..33% longer. This spirit dies after 10...60...120 seconds. 5e / 1 sec cast / 15 sec recharge.
Muddy Terrain - Create a level 1...10...15 spirit. Non-spirit enemies within its range move and attack 5..15..25% slower. This spirit dies after 10...90...120 seconds. 5e / 1 sec cast / 25 sec recharge.
Winnowing - Create a level 1...10...15 spirit. Non-spirit enemies within range take 1..8..12 additional damage whenever they take physical damage. This spirit dies after 10...60...90 seconds. 5e / 2 sec cast / 15 sec recharge.
Pestilence - Create a level 1...10...15 Spirit. When any enemy is inflicted with a condition, that condition has a 25..75..100% chance to spread to other creatures nearby. This Spirit dies after 10...60...90 seconds. 5e / 1 sec cast / 20 sec recharge.
Equinox - Create a level 1...10...15 spirit. For non-spirit allies within its range, whenever they hit with an attack, they gain 1..2..3 energy. This spirit dies after 10...60...90 seconds. 10e / 1 sec cast / 15 sec recharge.
Greater Conflagration - Create a level 1...10...15 spirit. For non-spirit allies within its range, all fire damage and has 5..15..25% armor pen. This spirit dies after 10...90...120 seconds. 5e / 1 sec cast / 15 sec recharge.
Infuriating Heat - Create a level 1...10...15 spirit. Non-spirit allies within range attack have an additional 5..25..50% chance to land a critical hit, and gain double addrenaline whenever they do crit. This spirit dies after 10..90..120 seconds. 5e / 1 sec cast / 25 sec recharge.
Lacerate - Create a level 1...10...15 spirit. Enemies within its range take 5..15..25 damage per second while moving, when bleeding. This spirit dies after 10...90...120 seconds. 5e / 1 sec cast / 20 sec recharge.
Edge of Extinction - Creates a level 1...10...15 spirit. Deals 10...50...75 damage to non-spirit enemies in its range whenever a creature dies. This spirit dies after 10...60...90 seconds. 10e / 1 sec cast / 15 sec recharge.
Energizing Wind – Creates a level 1..10..15 sprit. For non-spirit allies in its range, skills cost 10..50..75% less energy and recharge 33..15..10% slower. This spirit dies after 10..60..120 seconds. 15e / 2 sec cast / 15 sec recharge.
Fertile Season - Creates a level 1...10...15 spirit. Non-spirit allies in its range have +10...100...150 maximum health when in earshot of another ally. This spirit dies after 10...60...120seconds. 10e / 1 sec cast / 20 sec recharge.
Predatory Season - Creates a level 1...10...15 spirit. Non-spirit allies in its range steal 5..15..25 health with each attack. This spirit dies after 10...60...120 seconds. 5e / 1 sec cast / 10 sec recharge.
Symbiosis - Creates a level 1...10...15 spirit. Non-spirit allies within its range gain +10..50..75 maximum health and +1..10..15 armor whenever they are near an enemy. This spirit dies after 10..60..90 seconds. 5e / 2 sec cast / 20 sec recharge.
Favorable Winds - Creates a level 1..10..15 spirit. For Non-spirit allies within range, their arrows move twice as fast and have a 10..33..50% chance to crit, enemy arrows move twice as slow. This spirit dies after 10..60..90 seconds. Fails if below 4 expertise. 5e / 2 sec cast / 15 sec recharge.

reaper with no name · Dec 28, 2010, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Ok, time to use a Resurrection Signet on this thread.

Interrupts:

It's hard enough to make interrupts useful in PvE to begin with. Mesmers pretty much have this one tied up. And even if we could make Rangers more desirable with interrupts without risk of pushing mesmers out of the meta, how would we do it without making it benefit heroes more than players?

Conditions:

Generally speaking, conditions are worthless, and the ones that aren't can usually be better applied in other ways than with a ranger. The best way I can think of to make the ranger's ability to spread the less worthwhile conditions meaningful is to make them a condition for high damage skills. For example:

Sloth Hunter's Shot
If target foe is bleeding, deal +10...20 damage. If target foe is poisoned, deal another +4 damage for each rank of expertise.

This kind of thing in itself is unlikely to make the ranger useful, but it would be a start, and coupled with other buffs might be enough.

Nature Rituals:

The essential problems with nature rituals are that A) they affect allies and enemies, B) they take too long to use, and C) even if they were useful, Spawning Power synergizes with them more than Expertise.

A) and B) are easily fixed, as has already been discussed. C) is more problematic.

The cheap way of fixing them is to make Spawning Power not affect Nature Rituals. However, it is not the only option. Another way would be to create breakpoints such that Ranger Primaries are for more effective at using them (for example, the main reason Ritualists run Splinter Barrage better than rangers is because splinter weapon at 14 channeling is far, far more powerful than it is 12 channeling).

A third way to fix Nature Rituals would be to make them synergize more with the things that Rangers do than the things Ritualists can do. Ritualists are only good with bows when Barrage or Volley is involved (something which admittedly needs to be addressed; there's something very wrong when casters can use a martial weapon better than the profession it belongs to). Favorable Winds, for example, is far more useful to a Ranger than it is to a Ritualist (outside of Splinter Barrage type-builds).

An addendum to this tactic would be that it could be turned around. IE, spirits could be turned into conditions for bow attacks. For example:

Power Shot:

Deals +5...10 damage for each Nature Spirit in earshot.

Traps:

As has already been pointed out, because traps are stackable, they have to be balanced around the assumption that they will be stacked. This leads to them being weak. Throw in long activation times, and you have a recipe for uselessness. Traps need to be unstackable and activate more quickly (preferably with no "easily interrupted" clause).

The vision I have of traps that would be worthwhile but unique would be for them to activate immediately, but then take a certain amount of time after that to be able to be tripped (like, say, 5 seconds or so). Then, when an enemy trips it, it hits them and all other enemies in the area with whatever effect it has (presumably one far more powerful than traps have now). Then throw in some decent recharge times so that they can be used once or twice for each battle, and you've effectively removed a lot of the things dissuading people from using them (have to devote your whole bar to them, the party has to wait for you to set them up, etc).

Pets:

One of the biggest complaints about pets is that they take too long to switch targets. Strike as One fixes this by making the pet shadowstep to the target. All pet attacks need to do this. And maybe make pet attacks have some other inherent effect, like interrupting the target or something. Heck, maybe make one of the beast mastery elites cause all attacks by a pet (even autoattacks) to interrupt their target or something.

Single Target or AoE:

It's very important to decide what kind of ranged damage we want the ranger to ultimately be doing. Contrary to what some believe, range does matter in PvE (otherwise Imbagons would be using axes or swords instead of spears). A ranged character can attack any enemy or switch targets with no delay, can attack without putting themselves into harm's way, and can attack without fear of enemy snares crippling their ability to deal damage. The problem is that the benefits of range are currently not worth the large loss of dps for most applications (consistent adrenaline gain being a rare exception). Naturally, the solution is to increase the damage of ranged attacks (or decrease the damage of melee, but that's a pipe dream) until ranged attacks are attractive again. But before we do that we have to decide whether we want Rangers to be attacking single targets or multiple targets (turret-type builds or Barrage-type builds?). Both would probably be pushing things, especially with Paragons on the docket for a buff (which will likely mean they'll start to shift more towards damage). As has already been pointed out, making Barrage and Volley not remove Preparations or make them have a greater range would go a long way to making rangers more desirable for ranged physical AoE. Cutting the recharge time of Incendiary Arrows down somewhat would also help.

But keep in mind, because ranged damage has advantages over melee damage, any changes to it have to ensure that it does not become more powerful than melee. The trick is to find a balance point where melee is only somewhat more powerful than range. Furthermore, we have to consider caster AoE, which has the fundamental disadvantage of being unaffected by physical damage synergies.

Necromas · Dec 28, 2010, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Ok, time to use a Resurrection Signet on this thread.

Interrupts:

It's hard enough to make interrupts useful in PvE to begin with. Mesmers pretty much have this one tied up. And even if we could make Rangers more desirable with interrupts without risk of pushing mesmers out of the meta, how would we do it without making it benefit heroes more than players?

I think it's okay for rangers to stay how they are with interrupting in PvE, maybe change a skill or two but otherwise just let the mesmers have mass interrupting and the ranger rupts can still be useful for hitting meteor showers and stuff when mesmers aren't around. Make heroes save d-shot for the strongest skills.

Quote:

Nature Rituals:

The essential problems with nature rituals are that A) they affect allies and enemies, B) they take too long to use, and C) even if they were useful, Spawning Power synergizes with them more than Expertise.

I don't think anybody even cares that spawning power works with nature rituals, the real difference between a ranger and a rit is that having a better splinter weapon is superior to being a better archer.

The other rit advantage is of course summon spirits, while it's not any different on a R/Rt than on a Rt/R, it forces rangers to use rit secondaries and burn a pve skill slot just to make their spirits useful since nobody wants to wait for 60s recharges and 5s cast times between every fight. Even normal ritualists don't have this same downside because their spirits all have .75s or 1s cast times and most recharge in 30s. This could be so easily fixed just by making nature rituals cast and recharge as fast as rit spirits, or giving rangers their own way to make spirits portable (and still reduce the cast times)

Other than that I think some should be changed to only affect allies/enemies, but not all of them, or have them effect enemies and allies differently.

Quote:

Traps:

As has already been pointed out, because traps are stackable, they have to be balanced around the assumption that they will be stacked. This leads to them being weak. Throw in long activation times, and you have a recipe for uselessness. Traps need to be unstackable and activate more quickly (preferably with no "easily interrupted" clause).

The vision I have of traps that would be worthwhile but unique would be for them to activate immediately, but then take a certain amount of time after that to be able to be tripped (like, say, 5 seconds or so). Then, when an enemy trips it, it hits them and all other enemies in the area with whatever effect it has (presumably one far more powerful than traps have now). Then throw in some decent recharge times so that they can be used once or twice for each battle, and you've effectively removed a lot of the things dissuading people from using them (have to devote your whole bar to them, the party has to wait for you to set them up, etc).

I agree very much, trapping is completely useless in a party environment and has been reduced to nothing more than a gimmick. I say give traps 1s cast times, maybe buff some of the traps themselves, make it so you cannot normally have more than one copy of each trap active at a time, and change trapper's focus to allow stacking but maybe increase cast time so people can still trap farm. Trapper's speed should be good enough after the lowered cast times to let you use them in combat without getting interrupted.

Quote:

Pets:

One of the biggest complaints about pets is that they take too long to switch targets. Strike as One fixes this by making the pet shadowstep to the target. All pet attacks need to do this.

Make feral lunge, enraged lunge, and disrupting lunge do it. Maybe make feral lunge recharge faster and/or get rid of the bleeding.

Bandwagon · Dec 28, 2010, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Hello all I am a recent newcomer to this post article and I agree that rangers should most definitely receive a buff in PvE (PvP is another matter but it does not look like that is a major concern with the advent of skill splits, even though they degrade the client).

The way I (my mortal, flawed opinion) see it, after scanning everyone's ideas and theories is that rangers, when they are slated for a PvE skill update (I know they have not announced any such thing, but it would be ludicrous to think otherwise given the attention that the mesmer, rit, necro, and warrior received and the upcoming changes to dervs, paras and smite monks pending) will be given more damage and utility tools that promote synergy with the hallmark traits of a ranger.

These hallmark traits that I refer to are:
Bows
Condition spreading
Pets
Nature Rituals
Traps
Preperations
Interrupts

Over the years these hallmark traits have taken a back seat as better skills on other professions have become available, but with the right amount of testing and imagination, I am sure the TK and A net staff will deliver.

But what is a post without any contributory notes? Here are my slated mechanical changes to make rangers viable, while still promoting the use of their hallmarks. Many of these changes will most likely overlap with each other (for example both bow fixes and condition spreading will most likely overlap with the skills that will be changed to promote these play types).

Bows:
-more varied skills.
-added / altered functionality of several lackluster skills.
-conditional requirements to promote the use of the other traits with bow skills

Condition Spreading
-Weak on its own, condition spreading is still a hallmark of the ranger, just as interrupts are the hallmark of the mesmer, but Anet awarded the payoff for interrupting skills/spells with the mesmer update, the same can be done with conditions for the ranger.

Pets
-besides offering an IAS, bringing a pet is substandard, perhaps when the big melee h/h AI update occurs, they may revisit the pet AI.
-making pet attacks instant or faster than normal (and balance it accordingly) I feel would help alleviate several pet concerns (ever successfully use Disrupting Lunge on a <2 spell? Neither have I for the vast majority of attempts.

Nature Rituals
-Many of their effects are just bad (never mind the fact they have almost no synergy with ranger skills), and could definitely use a tweak or two.
- The cast time and recharge are insane (I can sympathize with Energizing Winds and Quickening Zephyr, but for the rest, its silly. Perhaps they could update the skills along the lines of the ritualist update.
- Promote team synergy and ranger skill synergy.

Traps
- Gimmicky by nature while they can be spammed and stacked, a change to the deployment and stackability of traps would go a long way for making them viable (and allows more leeway for anet to give them meaningful effects if they cannot be stacked together on an enemy).

Preperations
- Wilderness Survival in PvE stinks, and barrage makes preperations useless. Regardless to what would happen to Barrage, I feel that in order to preserve this mechanic, preperations need to be improved so that players actually feel it is worth the attribute investment to bring one or more preps.
- This Hallmark can easily synergize with bows, traps, pets, nature rituals, and condition spreading

Interrupts
- D-shot is the one of the best skills in PvP, now not all ranger rupts should mimic D-shot if rangers were to be buffed, rather the mechanical reason for bringing D-shot I feel should be evaluated. The skill, interrupts anything, and disables it for +20 seconds, which is crazy good in PvP.
- In PvE, interrupts, if they are to be preserved, should offer a PvE appropriate pay off for interrupting the target, Psychic Instability = 3-4 second KD, why can't rangers be given a (non elite appropriate) payoff for the less commonly used interrupts?

As you can tell a lot of these issues are brought up and addressed one or more times by several contributing posters, I feel it was appropriate to emphasize that just adding straight damage to the ranger is not all that feasible if anet wants to preserve the look, feel and playstyle of the profession.

Rangers are less likely to be buffed before the other slated professions because, at the moment, rangers are used in all forms of PvP, including GvG, and are wildly successful (I would even argue, they are more successful then the pre buff mesmer). Performing a skill update as massive and far reaching as the mesmer update on a class that still sees use regardless of its PvE flaws can be seen as wasteful of more pressing concerns (such as the paragon, which sees very little PvP use, and only sports one truly useful, viable bar).

Xiaquin · Dec 29, 2010, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Interrupts:

Rangers don't need to compete with mesmers here. Quicker recharges, a more powerful (elite) of Distracting, and instant recharge if an interrupt fails (since unlike mesmers, arrows can miss or be blocked) would be a start. Elite interrupts need to have a greater impact; I'm thinking knockdown or skill disabling of some kind.

With other skills: Concussion is too expensive, BHA is too slow and Disrupting Accuracy needs a new functionality. CG is also cumbersome. Bottom line, there is a lot to improve and it shouldn't be conceded to the mesmer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Single Target or AoE:

IMO, rangers are single target, just like paragons should be. Melee deserves the highest damage, it's the ridiculously powerful back line which makes it nearly unbeatable that's the biggest factor.

I want the direction to be controlling or weakening enemies, but finding the best way to implement is the challenge. To me it's more fun to be "useful" than having to super-buff my damage just to be competitive. Damage is all people care about, but I want to see a return to strategy, which is the ranger's game.

reaper with no name · Dec 29, 2010, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Rangers don't need to compete with mesmers here. Quicker recharges, a more powerful (elite) of Distracting, and instant recharge if an interrupt fails (since unlike mesmers, arrows can miss or be blocked) would be a start. Elite interrupts need to have a greater impact; I'm thinking knockdown or skill disabling of some kind.

With other skills: Concussion is too expensive, BHA is too slow and Disrupting Accuracy needs a new functionality. CG is also cumbersome. Bottom line, there is a lot to improve and it shouldn't be conceded to the mesmer.

IMO, rangers are single target, just like paragons should be. Melee deserves the highest damage, it's the ridiculously powerful back line which makes it nearly unbeatable that's the biggest factor.

I want the direction to be controlling or weakening enemies, but finding the best way to implement is the challenge. To me it's more fun to be "useful" than having to super-buff my damage just to be competitive. Damage is all people care about, but I want to see a return to strategy, which is the ranger's game.

So, more towards turrets then?

But here's the issue. If Rangers are better at turreting than Paragons, then that pushes Paragons ever more towards support. Not only would this potentially limit them, but historically paragons have had issues with synergy once you get enough of them.

Furthermore, in PvE, AoE is usually where it's at.

As for interrupts, the only way I've seen that makes sense to make ranger interrupts useful without stepping on the mesmer's toes is with more Dshot type skills, as Bandwagon suggested. And even then, it's highly unlikely to work, seeing as how you would need to be able to dshot every skill on multiple opponent's bars just to accomplish what panic does now.

Amy Awien · Dec 29, 2010, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromas

Make feral lunge, enraged lunge, and disrupting lunge do it. Maybe make feral lunge recharge faster and/or get rid of the bleeding.

Tbh, I'm not sure that I'd wouldn't want that change. I want to be able to give pet-commands while tabbing around targets without having my pet run around like mad. For me it's fine the way it is.